"Some birds aren't meant to be caged, their feathers are just too bright"- Morgan Freeman, Shawshank Redemption. This blog is from one such bird who couldn't be caged by organizations who mandate scripted software testing. Pradeep Soundararajan welcomes you to this blog and wishes you a good time here and even otherwise.

Thursday, December 04, 2008

Hands on software testing training - Change we need!

All workshops that I conduct has lots of elements of hands on testing and thinking exercises. I myself benefited a lot from hands on testing training approach that James and Michael do in their Rapid Software Testing class.

Over the last few months, I have been working on models of hands on training on software testing for freshers and people who are interested to be good enough to start testing computer software and for organizations who have a tough time getting people to test with lesser supervision than the current magnitude.

I have always been worried about the value of showing thousands of slides on software testing without actually getting a person to test, especially when a person hasn't had any testing experience.

"An ounce of practice is better than tons of theory" - Swami Sivanada

So, here comes a 30 day course on software testing that is hands on training from Satisfice India in partnership with Edista Testing Institute. Edista would be happy to place the participants of this kind of training to their clients who have been wanting freshers and candidates who can test as their resources.

If you were to make a choice between a A+ certified tester who got certified A+ merely based on answering 100 questions versus someone who has a certificate of successful completion of a hands on testing training, whom would you choose?

If you know of any fresher in India, or, if you want someone to benefit from this training kindly ask them to call Noorie @ +91 96322 22326 or e-mail her at noorie.a@edistatesting.com and ask for the hands on testing training for freshers.

I wish I can take a bet against those certification people to challenge those who attend this kind of hands on training for the same 30 days that the certified people take and ask them to see the value. I think I definitely can when I show you the results in the coming months.

Now, what I have written here might not be so wooing as a commercial ad of a testing training but I believe there is more value for the cost and is more worthy of someone's time if they want themselves to be trained good enough to start testing a software.

Oh! I didn't talk about the cost. This training costs twice as much as my 2 day Exploratory Testing class. Yes, its that affordable! And, there are only 6 more seats to be filled.

The good news is, I interviewed Testing Heads/ Vice President - Testing / Founders / CXO of organizations like - Wipro, Applabs, Patni, HP, Target, National Stock Exchange, Infosys, AIG, Edista Testing, VM Logix, ITKO Lisa, Deloite Consulting... at STC 2008 conference last fortnight and asked them a question about hands on training than mere slide show. You guess what their answer would have been or watch the videos at Test Republic in a couple of days.

One of the change India needs is here!

--
Pradeep Soundararajan :: Software Testing Videos: http://www.viddler.com/explore/testertested


Note: If you are interested to attend a 2 hour session on Exploratory Testing in Chennai on Dec 9th e-mail Noorie

20 comments:

ajay said...

You Waste Indian fellow always boosting and advertising. Trying to make money in the name of testing. lets see how long this goes dude.

List few testers whom you teach in india without cost ? as james bach did for u.

In Poor india, all the people are making education and related things to make money.

Isn't education and learning not for poor ?

Let us know how many poor people you taught free of cost.

Pradeep Soundararajan said...

@Ajay,

You asked some very good questions.

In Poor india, all the people are making education and related things to make money.

Oh, India is poor. Oh, there are countries where people don't make money through education.

List few testers whom you teach in india without cost ? as james bach did for u.

You see a link of Coffee with Pradeep on my blog?

Do you read Ajay, Sharath, Sathish, Manoj's blog and unfortunately other people don't blog.

James tested me if I am worth his time before he coached me for free. I do a lot of coaching for free and I wish I could show you my inbox on the same.

Now that you asked these good questions, you qualify a free ticket to any of my course in future if you are really interested at this course.

M.V.Manoj said...

@ ajay,

Ajay I can't understand When someone takes an Excellent Initiative to improve the State of Testing in India, why people like you want to give a Negative look to it? Why can't you do Cost Vs Value comparison to see what the candidates would be getting from this session?

I have attended Pradeep's sessions and I can assure you the value that you can get would make the price of course as very little.

Can you imagine - if a person is capable of changing your complete approach towards Testing within a couple of hours, what value he can add to those people who would be spending 30 days with him?


-Manoj

Pradeep Soundararajan said...

@Manoj,

Ajay asked some good question challenging things that other people haven't so I appreciated him.

Moreover, you gave a different dimension to it but I disagree that I can change someone's thought process in just a couple of hours.

I can provide examples that people consider me as the biggest fool they have ever met.

Michael said...

@Ajay...

I can vouch for the fact that Pradeep is quite generous with his time and his teaching.

As evidence, look at

- this blog;
- his participation in Test Republic;
- his work with private students (some of whom are listed here, and some of whom are not);
- his efforts in setting up meetings for the Bangalore testing community.

But in addition to all this, I'm curious as to why you would get upset at someone announcing their services when it's essential to their livelihood to do so. For all of us, revenue-generating work supports our non-revenue work.

If you yourself are without means, I'd suggest that you get in touch with Pradeep and take him up on his offer. But consider this: if you have the means to pay, and you don't, might you be the one who is doing the exploiting?

---Michael B.

Anonymous said...

I feel that the courses are too costly
Only useful and affordable to sponsored candidates.
Single individuals can’t bare frankly speaking,
Please try to teach more people in affordable cost.

sknivas said...

I feel that the courses are too costly
Only useful and affordable to sponsored candidates.
Single individuals can’t bare frankly speaking,
Please try to teach more people in affordable cost.

Pradeep Soundararajan said...

@sknivas,

Ok, come and sit under the bhodi tree with your own laptop and wireless internet connection, we will cut the cost to 50% of its existing thing and make it more affordable for you.

I feel that the courses are too costly

Compared to a Maruti Zen or Alto?


Only useful and affordable to sponsored candidates.


You may sponsor yourself.


Single individuals can’t bare frankly speaking,
Please try to teach more people in affordable cost.


Did you go to Government school and government college or attend a private institute?

If you did go to Government school and government college ( where you can get educated with 10% fees as compared to private ), I would love giving you a discount.

I don't understand how 20,000 for five weeks under an air conditioned room with one PC per person plus two instructors plus a job placement assistance and a flexibility to pay in installments is expensive to you people.

Speak for yourself! Let others bother about themselves.

Sharath Byregowda said...

@Ajay & sknivas,

It's great to know that you want to reach quality education to those who cannot afford. Then why don't you take the initiative to provide it?

What have you contributed to the community before questioning some one's integrity?

Do you know how much it costs at a Montessori in Bangalore today?
Do you know how much it costs to get admission in a decent school today?
Do you know the cost to get admission in a decent college today?

Why don't you protest against them?
Why don't you reach out to the leaders who have the authority to bring in a change?

I still remember the day, when I requested Pradeep to share his thoughts about over a cup of coffee. Do you know how much he charged me? One cup of coffee, that's it. He could have given me "n" reasons to not meet me, He could have claimed his vehicle petrol, money for his time and energy from me, but instead he showed me where I stand and the road to take.

Prove your worth to Pradeep, and I will be surprised if he charges to share his knowledge with you both.

-Sharath.B

Sharath Byregowda said...

@Ajay & sknivas,

It's great to know that you want to reach quality education to those who cannot afford. Then why don't you take the initiative to provide it?

What have you contributed to the community before questioning some one's integrity?

Do you know how much it costs at a Montessori in Bangalore today?
Do you know how much it costs to get admission in a decent school today?
Do you know the cost to get admission in a decent college today?

Why don't you protest against them?
Why don't you reach out to the leaders who have the authority to bring in a change?

I still remember the day, when I requested Pradeep to share his thoughts about over a cup of coffee. Do you know how much he charged me? One cup of coffee, that's it. He could have given me "n" reasons to not meet me, He could have claimed his vehicle petrol, money for his time and energy from me, but instead he showed me where I stand and the road to take.

Prove your worth to Pradeep, and I will be surprised if he charges to share his knowledge with you both.

-Sharath.B

Raj Ahuja said...

Having personally attended Pradeep's workshop in Chennai I must admit that the value attached to his coaching / training is much more than the other commercial testing courses available in the indian market.

Another associated point is that skilled exploratory testing needs an expertise built over a period of time and that comes only with hands on sessions so we must encourage such training initiatives and give some time to realise the true value of such trainings.

Coming on the costs, we may still think of providing easy and affordable access as we must agree that shelling 20000 rupees and on top of that accommodation and living costs for 30 days near to training venue (considering the participants are from other cities as well) may be little taxing for freshers. We may look out for some alternatives like using Webex or some online collaboration tools to deliver such trainings at the minimum costs.

While Pradeep highlighted the associated infrastructural costs like Air-conditioned classroom etc which may not be a necessary requirement for someone who want to be benefited by the actual hands on testing training even if it is delivered in a room with a single Khaitan Fan. In pradeep's own language he may live his whole life happily eating Curd-Rice while others may die because of that (one man food may be other man poison). Also, I would expect Pradeep to share his wisdom in a live interactive format with the rest of the world at a zero (courtesy some generous sponsors) or at actual costs at least once a month so that those who cannot afford to spend 20000 rupees are not deprived from what Pradeep has to offer to the community. I know I may be asking too much considering Pradeep's busy schedule but that still remains my personal expectations from the change leaders of software testing.

Here are two web links (just to cite examples) though they come with commercial interests behind but still provides value to someone who want to learn and make most out of these free training webinars:

http://www.softsmith.com/webinar.html

http://www.testinginstitute.com/seminar.php

I think similar ways to deliver what Pradeep and Satisfice Inc has to offer will help to keep to keep the costs to the minimum while delivering the same content and benefiting Indian testers. I am sure Pradeep has the abilities and strength to turn this into a roaring business opportunity as well through his existing corporate network.

By the way, next time no microphone for Pradeep in STC 2009 Conference as he and his messages are loud enough to shake the industry thought leaders but the big question is Are we listening and ready for change?

Pradeep Soundararajan said...

@Raj Ahuja,

Coming on the costs, we may still think of providing easy and affordable access as we must agree that shelling 20000 rupees and on top of that accommodation and living costs for 30 days near to training venue (considering the participants are from other cities as well) may be little taxing for freshers. We may look out for some alternatives like using Webex or some online collaboration tools to deliver such trainings at the minimum costs.

I am talking about 20,00 for 30 days of my training for freshers. Now that makes a huge difference, right?

Plus, I have always allowed people who payed once and wants to take the training again for free the next time. Which means, once you pay and demonstrate the learning, I give you a free entry to the next class you want to attend. I think Ajay, Amith, Sathish and Manoj have taken my session more than once. Amith has taken it 3 times :)

By the way, next time no microphone for Pradeep in STC 2009 Conference as he and his messages are loud enough to shake the industry thought leaders but the big question is Are we listening and ready for change?

You are right, I am loud enough without a microphone and I suggested that I don't use a mic but as there was a video recording I was forced to use one.

Plus you asked a good question: Are we ready for the change?

At least one organization has black listed me after listening to that presentation for any trainings for them in future and three new organizations are interested to conduct an in house training from me because they see a good value.

Should I take that "good" or "bad"? I consider it funny that some organization said, "Oh, Pradeep!" and other organizations said the same but in a different tone.

Jaanvi said...

I think lots have been said for this post.
Well,for me,I see this as a great endeavor to provide hands on training because sadly most of the courses available for freshers don't do that.

Sangeeta said...

I too have an incident to share: Pradeep was on his way to attend a conference to Canada from Bangalore via Mumbai in July - a long journey but he had time and energy to meet 2 of Mumbai testers at the airport and not only this he even proactively accepted a sudden change in plans by accepting to offer a free-of-charge 2 hour session at my ex-organization taking 2 of us along with him. Note all of us here just had "Testing" common between us but it was Pradeep who took efforts to utilise his time for better and that too for free. And I am sure few out of all those who attended the session would have been benefited along with Lalit and myself.

- Sangeeta

Pradeep Soundararajan said...

@Sangeeta,

Thanks for bringing in one of the experience of one of the free stuff that I do.

@AJAY,

Despite the free invite, I don't see any e-mail from you for exercising the free invite I gave you.

Does it show your eagerness or the extent to which you value things on which you raised a question?

Do you think all people in India respect free education?

Manjunath M.S said...

@skinivas
If your concern is cost, and for those who are freshers please go through this http://www.testingeducation.org/BBST/
Only prerequisite to complete this course is your time and your bandwidth . I am sure while doing this course you might come across many questions or you might seek specific answers then you have another forum where you can sort out things which is www.testrepublic.com
But if your concern is specific i.e why pradeep charges so much for a class , then I am assuming that you are willing to work for an organisation without getting a pay cheque ... is that the case ???
regards
Manjunath M.S

QTP Administrator said...

All,

There are many testing institutes in India. They all can give us technical and bookish knowledge on software testing.

But this is not enough. The main asset of a tester is 'the way the tester thinks'. And this is not given by those institutes..

What i am seeing in this blog - No Techical knowledge is shared.. but this blog can change the mind of a tester.. change the way of thinking..
testing is nothing, but it is the game of thinking..

In CMMI5 companies, all the things are well documented. nd we prepare the test cases blindly with the help of specs and test the apps blindly with the help of Test cases. As all the review processes are followed in CMMI5 companies, so there are less chances of discripencies. And i think Most of us are doing the same.

But what will happen if someday you will be asked to test the application (in critical times) which dont have test cases. Will you able to test the application efficiently.

In this blog you can find how to handle such critical situations.

This is the only one Indian blog of this kind. Thats all from my side. Hats off to Pradeep.

Sumit

Amith Prakash said...

@Ajay: Hey Ajay you dare to call a person "Waste Indian" becoz he has stuff to boast about and skills he can advertise, also he got free training from James Bach. I have a feeling you are jealous of Pradeep :P

if Pradeep is "Waste Indian" what are you a "Skilled Paki"

Its ok to voice your opinion but this is definitely not the way to go.


& sknivas: Dude as mentioned above I have had the opportunity to attend Pradeep's training thrice. Hey now was I just lucky, nope i guess Pradeep gave me the chance becoz I did show interest to learn and understand more about testing.

My suggestion to you is show the commitment towards testing, Pradeep will definitely help you out. BTW have you attended at least one of his training and if 'yes' did you not find value in it, if 'no' how would you know it was affordable(cost vs value). so my friend spend more time with Pradeep to know more about testing and his courses (affordability et all)

Deepak said...

Pradeep,

Learning is continuous, it can never end.
Good initiative you have started to train the freshers.
Would like to know from you whether you have plans for any such training for the testing professionals???
Weekend classes?

-Deepak

Ravisuriya said...

I am the student of Pradeep. He is teaching me lot and apart from testing too.

I have never payed him and also it is very sure I can't pay for the teaching he is imparting to me. I met him once that's all and never attended his session or classes too.

He cares for the people, nation, humanity and prosperity beside giving good education on testing.

I am the one such example, who is getting trained from my teacher Pradeep without any fee.


Ravisuriya