You have read enough things from Pradeep Soundararajan. Some of you even believed what he wrote. Some of you thought it was stupid. Some of you follow it very closely. Some of you got irritated by it. Some of you relied on what he wrote for guidance. Some of you enjoyed the writing and others hated it. Some of you thought he was faking. Some of you didn't bother to read what he was writing all these days. Some of you thought he is talking about ideal world. Some of you thought what he talks isn't practical. Some of you will always think good or bad about him no matter what he does. No matter whatever you think of him, he will keep doing things because what fuels him is, himself, primarily.
Now here is my testing open to public scrutiny. A Rapid Tester stands up to scrutiny. Here is something that can stand up to public scrutiny:
That's just one of the 7 videos I have come out with. If you are reading this post, you could find others as well. 7 isn't my limit but at a start. From now on, every week or two, you could find a new video. Not all of them would be published on my blog so don't rely on my blog to get updates. Figure out a way. Also you could download those videos if you wish to watch it offline or to watch it more than once.
Jonathan Kohl wrote about the importance of testing videos here .
For all things you couldn't believe about exploratory testing, human testing skills, rapid testing, context driven approach, pair testing, etc... here is one of your chances. Alternatively James Bach, Mike Kelly and other testers have their own videos which you could find on Googling.
The horse can be taken near the water. The horse won't drink the water if it thinks its not thirsty or it can live without drinking that water or for whatever reason the horse decides not to drink. I know, you aren't a horse or at least you don't appear so.
If you wish to be a part of these videos, drop an e-mail to me. Thanks to Ajay Balamurugadas and Sharath Byregowda for their enthusiasm in helping me with these videos and for pair and trio testing with me.
Operation Roshan has just begun.
Update: 18 Sep: When we watch a movie, we usually fall in love with the actor and actress and forget the work of people who made the movie to happen being at the backstage. Similarly, I forgot to include our host for about 2 days since I posted this who facilitated the video creation, place, resources and provided space to sleep overnight - Edista Testing Institute and Test Republic. When I asked what Edista means, I got a reply as "Facilitation" and this is an organization living up to what its name means.
Thank you folks!
--
Pradeep Soundararajan - http://testertested.blogspot.com - pradeep.srajan@gmail.com
"The test doesn't find the bug. A human finds the bug, and the test plays a role in helping the human find it." --
21 comments:
Thank you for videos!
Thanks Kristine. More to come.
Hi Pradeep,
Cool!! =)
I think your site has very good information related to test.
See you soon!
Thanks
Ms.Aragão
Thats a cool one....
Also i want to know few things (I know its not relevant to this article but will be very useful):
1. What is "Test Methodology"?
2. What is "Test Estimation"? What are the different types?
3. What is "Effort Estimation"? What are the different types?
4. How do you arrive at the figure of this effort estimation? Is there an industry standard?
5. As based on your effort estimation, we need to say how many 'testers' are required for the project? (or is there any other way of determinig this?)
7. Is there a standard value (cost) in 'Billing' a resource for testing to a client?
8. What to know more information on 'Writing Test Proposals', different project/test models?
9. What factors need to be considered when it comes to 'Billing a clinet'? Are there any standard values and methodology? How is it calculated?
I feel providing these info in your blog (or next article will be useful for test manager and other sr management people in testing)will be helpful for aspiring TL who want to go to the next level.
Note: All above questions are related to testing.
Rgds,
Raj
@Raj,
Thanks for your comment.
I feel providing these info in your blog (or next article will be useful for test manager and other sr management people in testing)will be helpful for aspiring TL who want to go to the next level.
Well, it appears like you are new to this blog. Browse a while you or other test managers or aspiring leads would have answers to the questions you asked for.
Testing is much beyond the questions you asked for. Someone can know all those answers and yet not be good or even fair enough managers and leads. So, why know them?
Why not ask questions that matter in becoming better a tester?
Hi Pradeep,
Thanks for your comments.
Can you let me know under what tags/labels you have reference too.
Yes i know "Someone can know all those answers and yet not be good or even fair enough managers and leads"....but atleast these have to be defined in terms of process or methodology.
"Why not ask questions that matter in becoming better a tester?" these question focus to the next level of tester (no harm in tester know this)
Appreciate your answers in this regard.
Rgds,
Raj
@Raj,
Can you let me know under what tags/labels you have reference too.
Can you help me understand what the above means?
.but atleast these have to be defined in terms of process or methodology.
I am not an expert. If I define something in my own words, it might turn out to be inferior because I might lack understanding in things you want to learn. If you end up learning from me, you might be misguided forever.
these question focus to the next level of tester (no harm in tester know this)
If there was no harm then why is it that a lot of people think they know testing and to do it better by just memorizing the answers to such questions?
Hi,
I do not know the answers to what i asked, hence my question to you is:
- Can you guide to to find out the answer's OR
- Can you answer that for me OR
- its and YES or NO is what i want
"I am not an expert. If I define something in my own words, it might turn out to be inferior because I might lack understanding in things you want to learn."....
No body is an expert nor will i think that what ever you told in inferior. I do not want you to define, but pass on what ever information you know about the topics
Appreciate not inteligently posting replies/comments pls.
"At the end of each article of your, you have a 'Label' so under which label have you stored the info for which i asked.
Rgds,
Raj
@Raj,
- Can you guide to to find out the answer's OR
- Can you answer that for me OR
- its and YES or NO is what i want
Yes, Google Search for it.
No body is an expert nor will i think that what ever you told in inferior. I do not want you to define, but pass on what ever information you know about the topics
How do you know nobody is an expert?
How many testers have you met to conclude so?
Appreciate not inteligently posting replies/comments pls.
I don't understand what you meant by that.
"At the end of each article of your, you have a 'Label' so under which label have you stored the info for which i asked.
I don't understand this either.
Pradeep,
Probably i think your not so unwise not understand these conversation or my comments.
I very well know to do a google search, but i wanted to know whats your understand/guidance on this thats all as you have been bloging and interacting with great people/testers?
Let me repeat that my intentions was to gain some light and knowledge from you thats all.
Answer's for your above comment:
- "How do you know nobody is an expert?".....this comment given by you was the comment that i replied to what you had commented earlier.
- "Appreciate not inteligently posting replies/comments pls"....what i meant was by you not asking like 'how many tester you have meet!' How do you know no body is an expert!' these questions and to give me some guidance.
- "How many testers have you met to conclude so?"....Probably i have not meet many tester's as you have meet but certianly have meet a few passionate testers.
- You do a search (CTRL F) in your blog for the word 'Copyrights held by Pradeep Soundararajan Labels' or just 'Labels'
Anyways thanks for your comments and information....
Rgds,
Raj
@Raj,
Probably i think your not so unwise not understand these conversation or my comments.
The question is your English that I am unable to understand it.
Let me leave your comment for a while to my other readers so that if they understand it, they could get back to me on this and maybe only then I might be able to comment on it.
Pradeep,
I am sorry if my english is not up to the mark as yours.
Corrected sentence - "Probably i think your not so unwise not to understand these conversation or my comments."
That would be fine. Let the readers read these comments and let them judge.
I would be very humble to accept any mistakes from my side for what i asked for and what this conversation ended in as i had just requested you to probably write an article or guide me or let me know where it is present in your blog as it contains lots of information.
Rgds,
Raj
@Raj,
Probably i think your not so unwise not to understand these conversation or my comments."
Let me re-write what I think you want to write in the above:
Probably, I think you are not so unwise to not understand my comments
...as i had just requested you to probably write an article or guide me or let me know where it is present in your blog as it contains lots of information.
Searching within my blog is free.
Pradeep,
Hope you post my last 2 comments also. Hope I don't have to repeat this requesting you to post.
Since you have been posting all the comments without hiding anything.
Rgds,
Raj
@Raj,
You are commenting through a software. If you expect it to have no bugs at all then you might not be able to test any better.
You might want to search again and do some investigation before you say whatever you say that's going to be public. You might want to search on Blogger missing some comments or something like that.
I have approved all the comments I have got from you so far and can't approve a comment that I have not got.
I want to honor each of my blog reader and hence reply to each of their comment but I would see no need to approve or honor any such comments from people with a tunnel vision.
Pradeep,
I am surprised to see none of my later comments updated?
And also other passionate testers (readers) not commenting on this.
What should I infer from this:
- That all other readers do not want to comment
- I am wrong
- You are wrong
- Some of us accept our faults
- Your are not interested to post any further comments
- You feel that you have reached great heights and do not care about what others comment
- You are to egoistic to accept faults
One of your other article a reader had said "You have enabled comment moderation so that you do not post all comments....."
And you had replied that its only to avoid Spam....
You have made it true i feel.
What happend? Hope you post this comment.
Rgds,
Raj
@Raj,
If you have a problem reading my blog, stop reading it.
Don't pain yourself more than this.
What should I infer from this:
- That all other readers do not want to comment
- I am wrong
- You are wrong
- Some of us accept our faults
- Your are not interested to post any further comments
- You feel that you have reached great heights and do not care about what others comment
- You are to egoistic to accept faults
Add more to it and it wouldn't bother me. If I don't publish a few comments it is because I see that it doesn't add any value.
For instance, look at your comment: which is being directed against me under the title "Exploratory Testing Videos" - that's crap.
Instead consider starting a blog to rant anything you want about anyone in the world and do whatever you want with it - its free.
If I didn't want people to comment, I would instead disable comments ( which is an available option ) instead of moderating it.
However, please don't stop thinking that I am egoistic and whatever you think because it is neither making you better nor making me worse.
There are a lot of readers who come here to learn and teach me something valuable in helping me be a better tester. I wish to encourage such people and not the ones who spend my time for nothing that benefits neither of us.
If I have allowed someone to comment saying that "You have enabled comment moderation" then in my opinion, I can't be more truthful and honest.
Go away and don't waste your time here.
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocre minds. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence and fulfills the duty to express the results of his thoughts in clear form." -- Sir Albert Einstein
You are a great spirit and I am the mediocre mind.
Exploratory testing doesn't mean that do the exploratory testing in such a way that it should prove only the importance of exploratory testing. In my opinion, whatever be the testing, it should ultimately add value to the AUT.
At the same time there are many kinds of testing which will greatly improve the value of testing.I can say that exploratory testing supplement but not complement other kinds of testing.
I've been in testing from last five years and i did a lot of exploratory testing but never did it to anounce the world that i'm doing exploratory testing.After reading a couple of posts i felt that Pradeep concluding that exploratory testing is the panacea for all testing related issues which made me confusing.
Exploratory testing is inherent skill of a potential tester and at the same time he never think of it explicitly.If a guy can't do a exploratory testing he cant be a good tester.But that doesn't mean that that is only skill required to do a good testing.
Exploratory testing has its own limitations when it is done in not- -so-meaningful manner.
For example,in first video, pradeep and two other guys brainstorming on the validity of the error message which triggered from by clicking "Don't Accept" button.Do you think really error message something like "you're not accepted agreement..you should accept the agreement to proceed" kinda message.
I would like to give one scenario similar to above case.I'm waiting at a bus stop to get a bus to reach destination X.Bus came and i board the bus and after some time i got to know that this bus is destined for Y.So i get down bus through a exit door.My second scenario is i board the bus and i forget my purse.Again i need to get down bus.But through a same door.Buses in general dont equip with doors for different scenarios.Even the commuters knew this fact and whatever be the scenario which leads to their exit from bus, they try to get down through single door.That is what we call intuition
So validity of error message for "Dont' Accept" button remind of the above scenario.So if we do the exploratory testing in not-so-proper direction we will end up with some not-so-useful scenarios.
Anyway i'm a true believer in exploratory testing but not only in exploratory testing but also in script based testing also unlike Pradeep :-).
--vamsi
@Vamsi
Exploratory testing doesn't mean that do the exploratory testing in such a way that it should prove only the importance of exploratory testing. In my opinion, whatever be the testing, it should ultimately add value to the AUT.
All kinds of testing adds value but what adds more value depends on the context. If testers like you thought about value they wouldn't be doing scripted testing in most contexts.
At the same time there are many kinds of testing which will greatly improve the value of testing.I can say that exploratory testing supplement but not complement other kinds of testing.
Exploratory testing is an approach to testing. I think you could come down to challenge me on this and we could post the video to the public so that if you have better ideas than me, the public would know that and be benefited.
I've been in testing from last five years and i did a lot of exploratory testing but never did it to anounce the world that i'm doing exploratory testing.After reading a couple of posts i felt that Pradeep concluding that exploratory testing is the panacea for all testing related issues which made me confusing.
After reading the first few pages of my Engineering Economics book during my 5th semester of Bachelor Engineering course, I thought it was stupid. Later, I realized the value of Engineering Economics.
Exploratory testing is inherent skill of a potential tester and at the same time he never think of it explicitly.If a guy can't do a exploratory testing he cant be a good tester.But that doesn't mean that that is only skill required to do a good testing.
Again when you use the word NOT coined by you it might be a good idea to refer to what the person who coined it and introduced it talks about it. I would suggest you read Dr Cem Kaner's definition of Exploratory testing and you might learn that Exploratory Testing isn't a skill.
Exploratory testing has its own limitations when it is done in not- -so-meaningful manner
Driving an aeroplane has its own limitations when it is not done is not-so-meaningful manner
For example,in first video, pradeep and two other guys brainstorming on the validity of the error message which triggered from by clicking "Don't Accept" button.Do you think really error message something like "you're not accepted agreement..you should accept the agreement to proceed" kinda message.
Thanks that you watched the video till that point. Some are error messages and some are information.
I again suggest to read Ben Simo's FAILURE.
So validity of error message for "Dont' Accept" button remind of the above scenario.So if we do the exploratory testing in not-so-proper direction we will end up with some not-so-useful scenarios.
So if we do the car driving in not-so-proper direction we will end up with some not-so-useful place.
Anyway i'm a true believer in exploratory testing but not only in exploratory testing but also in script based testing also unlike Pradeep :-).
Surprising that you are a true believer of it without knowing what it is or what the person coined it meant and practices.
By reading all your posts under exploratory testing category, I felt that you are recommending/glorifying 100% ET. But as tester , i feel 100 % ET is not possible in a project.
But I should thank you that i have learned a lot about ET and is dynamics.
@Anonymous,
By reading all your posts under exploratory testing category, I felt that you are recommending/glorifying 100% ET.
What do you mean by 100% ET?
But as tester , i feel 100 % ET is not possible in a project.
A man came to me and said "Apple is a salty fruit" and I asked, "Have you tasted one?" for which he replied "No"
Assuming you mean a full fledged project running on Exploratory Testing and not on a scripted or test case based approach, have you ever tried doing that?
If I were to help you re-phrase, it would be, "As I haven't seen any project run with Exploratory Testing and without test case based approach, I find it hard to believe it is possible".
A lot of people have done it and have been doing it.
I would also have to ask say, if you were aware of SBTM, you probably wouldn't have said what you said.
But I should thank you that i have learned a lot about ET and is dynamics.
You are welcome.
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