tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21132099.post3959606592408527288..comments2023-09-01T13:36:59.610+05:30Comments on Tester Tested !: Great testing stories from India (Created by Not Following Any "Best Practices")Pradeep Soundararajanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17849721523107325938noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21132099.post-96667821280463572008-02-05T18:33:00.000+05:302008-02-05T18:33:00.000+05:30Pradeep said,2. How do you say you or your teams h...Pradeep said,<BR/><BR/>2. How do you say you or your teams have achieved what 'best practices' followers disn't achieve?<BR/><BR/>a) We questioned what we are hired for.<BR/><BR/>b) We questioned our client what he expects us to do.<BR/><BR/>c) We questioned ourselves if we have the skills to do that.<BR/><BR/>d) We questioned our manager if we could have the freedom to do things to meet the mission that might be against some process rules.<BR/><BR/>e) We questioned, constantly, to check if we are getting close to meeting the mission.<BR/><BR/>f) We achieved the mission set for us.<BR/><BR/>g) We asked for another mission to work on.<BR/><BR/>i) Such things cannot be listed as points.<BR/><BR/>Hey Pradeep,<BR/>Nice post. But in the above reply how are you sure that the "Best Practices" followers (in my view, Process Oriented companies) do not ask these and many more questions?<BR/>As much as I know or have experienced, the "Best Practices" followers do ask questions like this. <BR/>Actually I didn't understand the answer you gave for Sangeetha's second question. I would be happy if you could elaborate more on your answer.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21132099.post-59090940741778739142008-01-31T07:52:00.000+05:302008-01-31T07:52:00.000+05:30@Markus,Questioning the skills we need to learn is...@Markus,<BR/><BR/>Questioning the skills we need to learn is not a bad idea and I don't know what makes you laugh at that.<BR/><BR/>I said we questioned but didn't say we stopped.<BR/><BR/>If you try to connect the ants to everything I write, you would never get to understand the purpose of the post. I am concerned that you are failing to understand things because I see you spending your time at my blog and I wish to value your time.<BR/><BR/>I hope you help me value your time.Pradeep Soundararajanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17849721523107325938noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21132099.post-29439577803356260542008-01-31T01:31:00.000+05:302008-01-31T01:31:00.000+05:30Pradeep wrote:"c) We questioned ourselves if we ha...Pradeep wrote:<BR/>"c) We questioned ourselves if we have the skills to do that."<BR/><BR/>Muahahaha! I'm writing this reply with a smile of triumph on my face.<BR/><BR/>So you were successful by NOT copying the behaviour of your testing ants.<BR/>I wonder if all your teammembers read your blog or if you have told them the story and asked about their opinion and whether they would ever start a job they have found to be "impossible" to finish.<BR/><BR/>Nevertheless, I'd like to see your slides on the web (in a format different from ppt and doc ;) )<BR/>after the talk.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21132099.post-24924565135638885892008-01-30T11:13:00.000+05:302008-01-30T11:13:00.000+05:30Ok...I got your point Pradeep especially regarding...Ok...I got your point Pradeep especially regarding *cannot*.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21132099.post-44240721892422357162008-01-29T22:16:00.000+05:302008-01-29T22:16:00.000+05:30@Sangeeta,I would like to ask you few questions -1...@Sangeeta,<BR/><BR/><I>I would like to ask you few questions -<BR/>1. What are the parameters of success?<BR/></I><BR/><BR/>It varies from project to project and context to context.<BR/><BR/><BR/><I>2. How do you say you or your teams have achieved what 'best practices' followers disn't achieve?</I><BR/><BR/>a) We questioned what we are hired for.<BR/><BR/>b) We questioned our client what he expects us to do.<BR/><BR/>c) We questioned ourselves if we have the skills to do that.<BR/><BR/>d) We questioned our manager if we could have the freedom to do things to meet the mission that might be against some process rules.<BR/><BR/>e) We questioned, constantly, to check if we are getting close to meeting the mission.<BR/><BR/>f) We achieved the mission set for us.<BR/><BR/>g) We asked for another mission to work on.<BR/><BR/>i) Such things cannot be listed as points.<BR/><BR/><I>3. Along with the mindset of the people comes a very important problem - resourcing. What kind of resources are needed for this "success" team? How should they be trained? How should work be allocated to them? And how should the progress measured?</I><BR/><BR/>If you can find people who are passionate and willing to learn to become better at the craft then things would follow on its own.<BR/><BR/>Those who wants to become better at the craft will know to train themselves.<BR/><BR/>Give them a mission and let them do the allocation.<BR/><BR/>If the mission is clear then the progress can be monitored or assessed but not measured.<BR/><BR/>All of my answers are thought and written in some contexts that I see in common between me and many other Indian testers and it might or might not make sense to you.<BR/><BR/><I>I think what you wanted to say is that "you *can* see..."</I><BR/><BR/>No, I did wanted to say *cannot* - because I don't offer success creation formula for a testing team -<BR/><BR/>a) because it doesn't exist.<BR/><BR/>b) because that's what people who are fans of best practices sell.<BR/><BR/>c) because I want to help the craft get better and practical.Pradeep Soundararajanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17849721523107325938noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21132099.post-30940060237025856322008-01-29T21:01:00.000+05:302008-01-29T21:01:00.000+05:30Best practices ... I have developed an acronym to ...Best practices ... I have developed an acronym to describe the pros and cons of using them - NKS: Neighbor’s Kid syndrome.<BR/><BR/>Watch out for a blog entry on explaining what NKS is. This is preview so that you can come up with your own explanation…<BR/><BR/>Give it a try explain "Neighbor’s Kid syndrome" and how it relates to our industry's fascination about best practices...<BR/><BR/>You also would want to probe best practice in terms – who says so? How do you know? What is a practice? What about good, better, bad, worst practices?<BR/><BR/>ShriniShrini Kulkarnihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10782753752478547381noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21132099.post-62875206404509355732008-01-29T20:54:00.000+05:302008-01-29T20:54:00.000+05:30I can think of one situation where the term best p...I can think of one situation where the term best practice seems to have some relevance and utility.<BR/><BR/>SAP Industry Best Practices.<BR/>These are additional confugurations and master data set up applied on the top of base version of SAP. Accordingly, we can have health care, Manufacturing, Banking, Chemical industry best practices packages applied on core SAP ERP system.<BR/>It is one way to get to quick nand working prototype specially configured to a special industry verticle.<BR/><BR/>http://help.sap.com/content/bestpractices/industry/bestp_industry_automotive.htm<BR/><BR/><BR/>This the first and only time so far where I said to myself -- this makes some sense.<BR/><BR/>What do you say?<BR/><BR/>ShriniShrini Kulkarnihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10782753752478547381noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21132099.post-19961321469653770222008-01-29T14:41:00.000+05:302008-01-29T14:41:00.000+05:30Hi Pradeep,I would like to ask you few questions -...Hi Pradeep,<BR/><BR/>I would like to ask you few questions -<BR/>1. What are the parameters of success? <BR/>2. How do you say you or your teams have achieved what 'best practices' followers disn't achieve?<BR/><BR/>I am asking this because I am sure as soon as one claims this there will be many 'best practices' followers who will vouch for the strategy and success. In my organisation the most successful project is one where they have more than 20,000 test cases of which more than 7,000 are automated. And you try to tell this to the manager and he will simply not agree. You try to tell this to some other person and they have such faith in this manager that he is recommended for all other projects. <BR/>One success story sets the strategy for various other projects. <BR/><BR/>3. Along with the mindset of the people comes a very important problem - resourcing. What kind of resources are needed for this "success" team? How should they be trained? How should work be allocated to them? And how should the progress measured? <BR/>If the team is not like-minded there could be major problems leading to failure of the project.<BR/><BR/>---------<BR/> <BR/>Also, you wrote - "If you are going to listen to these stories in my presentation, I warn you to be aware that you *cannot* see the same success if you try doing things we did."<BR/>Is there a typo-error here? I think what you wanted to say is that "you *can* see..."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21132099.post-25342231963186874852008-01-28T19:23:00.000+05:302008-01-28T19:23:00.000+05:30Pradeep, It would be very interesting to see those...Pradeep, It would be very interesting to see those success stories from India.<BR/>I also worked on agile project systems (if I am not wrong - systems that do not follow "Best practices" what are applicable for most of the projects)<BR/>So I would be more interested in knowing key strategies you applied that made projects successful without so called "best practices". <BR/><BR/>Wish you great success for the conference.. <BR/><BR/>Regards,<BR/>Vijay<BR/><A HREF="http://www.softwaretestinghelp.com" REL="nofollow">Software Testing Help</A>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com