tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21132099.post7260711127799003222..comments2023-09-01T13:36:59.610+05:30Comments on Tester Tested !: Truth about test plan document & test case documentPradeep Soundararajanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17849721523107325938noreply@blogger.comBlogger50125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21132099.post-87376823228661060442012-04-06T06:25:41.666+05:302012-04-06T06:25:41.666+05:30The gist of your post is that test cases and test ...The gist of your post is that test cases and test plans are a formality, but don't really amount to a pile of &*. Right? I have to agree with you mostly. They make up a pile of documentation that is used mostly for CYA purposes. However, there is some value in documentation to make sure the testing direction is correct, and that people are at least covering the minimum. We all know however that most defects are not found by fancy test cases and test plans, but by good testers who are familiar with the domain and application and have the freedom to do exploratory testing!Phil Lhttp://www.xbosoft.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21132099.post-73519279841066826092012-03-30T11:42:17.464+05:302012-03-30T11:42:17.464+05:30Nice one Pradeep. This one is my fav "If all ...Nice one Pradeep. This one is my fav "If all test case documents created so far were printed and burnt, we'd have fire for the next one thousand years."<br /><br />I was so annoyed looking at test cases that I have put up a syntax for them at http://testtotester.blogspot.co.uk/2012/03/test-case-syntax.html Hope they get the sarcasm in it and not start following it ;)<br /><br />@ Ryan - I don't want to hijack you to my blog from here but my last post was on regression testing (http://testtotester.blogspot.co.uk/2012/01/regression-checks-regression-testing.html) u might find it usefulSharath Byregowdahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05598574569004749448noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21132099.post-88084262930879145682012-03-29T12:20:41.822+05:302012-03-29T12:20:41.822+05:30Hi Pradeep,
Hope you will/had write/written a boo...Hi Pradeep,<br /><br />Hope you will/had write/written a book on TESTING. Interesting Blog! Keep Blogging<br /><br />Regards,<br />Nalini Thiyagarajanreenahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08999287810391495680noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21132099.post-32908202046856725742012-03-26T23:38:24.820+05:302012-03-26T23:38:24.820+05:30@Anonymous,
I love the way you stress yourself.@Anonymous,<br /><br />I love the way you stress yourself.Pradeep Soundararajanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17849721523107325938noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21132099.post-10262248334235171142012-03-26T22:02:15.762+05:302012-03-26T22:02:15.762+05:30Pradeep,
No matter how big a bully you are, like ...Pradeep,<br /><br />No matter how big a bully you are, like most bullies you seem to have more brawns than brains. I am glad, I could infuriate you with such sublte criticism. <br /><br />I care not how big a bully you are and the fact that you started jumping the gun without even a little introspection highlights the fact that you lack patience, sense of constructive critism and the ability to accept negative feedback. All three most important atributes of a software tester.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21132099.post-46983342790414802132012-03-26T21:03:24.731+05:302012-03-26T21:03:24.731+05:30@ Ryan,
Before every flight, a pilot is supposed ...@ Ryan,<br /><br />Before every flight, a pilot is supposed to check if everything that should be in place is in place. He does that through a checklist and not detailed scripts. Also, there are automated checks. So, a combo of automated checks and a human going through a checklist with exploration of risks for the change that was made can be of good help for regression. Thanks for asking.Pradeep Soundararajanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17849721523107325938noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21132099.post-4874902369982715202012-03-26T20:34:45.227+05:302012-03-26T20:34:45.227+05:30Hi Pradeep,
First off, I am relatively new in my...Hi Pradeep, <br /><br />First off, I am relatively new in my learning of Context Driven testing, so pardon my possibly elementary question.<br /><br />I do agree with the points that you mentioned, since I have personally witnessed Test Plans rot in the version-control systems in my previous companies. <br /><br />In fact, I was able to convince management of my previous company to do away with the test plan documents. <br /><br />However, I cannot seem to find a good argument to use about conducting regression testing without test case documents. Do you have any advice on this? Or maybe point me to articles that can help me further?<br /><br />Thanks in advanceAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17204392485716480212noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21132099.post-13224503662510795912012-03-26T19:06:28.292+05:302012-03-26T19:06:28.292+05:30@Pradeep,
Thanks for the quick reply, and i realy...@Pradeep,<br /><br />Thanks for the quick reply, and i realy glad to got this perfect answer :). I got what to be done in this scenario and will try to implement it accordingly. <br /><br />ThanksShailesh Gohelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15960493219317194226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21132099.post-74551525207244662612012-03-26T18:56:38.750+05:302012-03-26T18:56:38.750+05:30@Shailesh,
Sorry for the delay in response but am...@Shailesh,<br /><br />Sorry for the delay in response but am glad you brought my attention back to what you want me to address. I didn't have time to open my own blog but today I have it. Thanks for your patience. I appreciate it 100%.<br /><br />You are not Sachin of 2012 but do you see that you are how Sachin was in 1980? He practiced good cricket and that is the message he left to us.<br /><br />There were situations in everybody's life that forces them to do something hard and cannot be done by everybody. Even for Sachin : http://www.ndtv.com/article/sports/how-sachin-tamed-temptations-to-become-a-legend-174797<br /><br />So, what do you think you should be doing?Pradeep Soundararajanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17849721523107325938noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21132099.post-41140387818277454812012-03-26T18:47:12.644+05:302012-03-26T18:47:12.644+05:30Hi Pradeep,
I have commented few weeks back on th...Hi Pradeep,<br /><br />I have commented few weeks back on this post, my comment is just directly above this anonymous user's comment. I really want to know your view about the 3rd point i have asked. I guess it would be really helpful to me :) <br /><br />Thanks,<br />ShaileshShailesh Gohelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15960493219317194226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21132099.post-71735908931212319222012-03-26T18:41:39.478+05:302012-03-26T18:41:39.478+05:30@Anonymous,
You are right. The author is a critic...@Anonymous,<br /><br />You are right. The author is a critic gone overboard. He is such an asshole I can tell you that you would not want to dare reveal yourself in front of him. He is a bully too. Good that you hid yourself otherwise he would have bullied you. He is useless to the Indian testing and I have been telling this to people who thinks he is great.<br /><br />On your comment of "his overly critical ideas of revolutionizing testing will not work in the real world" - you hit it on the nail. His ideas have never worked. Surprised that there are many stupid people who buy his ideas.Pradeep Soundararajanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17849721523107325938noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21132099.post-90013365893201958262012-03-26T18:31:31.056+05:302012-03-26T18:31:31.056+05:30The author writes both, sense and nonsense. Sense ...The author writes both, sense and nonsense. Sense seems to come from the humongous literature that is freely dispensed over the world wide web. I am fan of his articles about testing in theory. The nonsense is the ill-processed output from his frustrated brain. His articles give strong vibes of him being a critic gone overboard.<br /><br />Some of his articles such as the one above potentially damage the reputation Indian outsourcing industry. This one above, the author is clearly trying to cut out a sorry picture of the Indian testing industry when saying most of it's revenues come from writing test plans and test cases and reviewing them and so on. If that was the case his own enterprise would have been a trillion $ enterprise and the likes of Infy, TCS, Wipro etc. on the streets.<br /><br />The author needs to know that testing is yet another revenue generating machinary of the corporate world. It's sheer business to rake in the moolah, he likes it or not. His overtly critical ideas of revolutionizing testing will not work in the real world.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21132099.post-2840394483490368272012-02-22T16:30:32.894+05:302012-02-22T16:30:32.894+05:30Hi Pradeep,
Totally agree with you regarding Test...Hi Pradeep,<br /><br />Totally agree with you regarding Test Cases and partially with Test Plan. I have couple of queries.<br /><br />1. Yes you are right that 98%+ Test Plan are of no use, but as you are going to start working for a XYZ company for their really importance ABC project what is the mutual understanding or agreement between both the parties that these all the activities test team is going to execute. <br /><br />If taking an example of House rent/sale agreement there are many clauses and other stuff mention in 3-4 pages of agreement that any of the party barely read or even the Notary/Advocate who has prepared. But still without that any deal won’t be consider as successed. <br /><br />So it’s a business and one has to prepare a plan no matter how non-useful it is. <br />2. If your Product is 4 year old and there is some maintenance then how will you get the data of what all the things you had planned in the 3rd or 4th release of this product. Only test plan can tell you that without digging into more document (Here I am assuming that test team has updated test plan release wise).<br />3. Regarding Test Cases I agree with you that 2-3 step’s checks are enough to test a particular component/function instead of detailed complex test cases with lot of Pre-requisites, data set and blab la bla...<br />But the question here is I am not sachine or saurav ganguli nor I am an independent consultant but a Test Analyst with an elite xyz firm and I cannot leave this firm because of so n so reason. I hate writing detailed non-useable test scripts/cases (It also can be a long debate to differentiate test cases vs. test script) but my company want it because its their process. Now what the steps I should follow in this case? <br /><br />Please at least give me reply for 3rd point I really looking for it. <br />Thanks,<br />ShaileshShailesh Gohelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15960493219317194226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21132099.post-35088002762994224302012-02-20T21:25:39.846+05:302012-02-20T21:25:39.846+05:30Great Stuff.Thanks for the postGreat Stuff.Thanks for the postsuhasinihttp://www.software-testingguide.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21132099.post-37221647709329215602012-02-07T13:42:54.830+05:302012-02-07T13:42:54.830+05:30Nice post.More informativeNice post.More informativeSunilhttp://www.softwaretestingfullguide.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21132099.post-43753616070762238542012-01-05T12:54:36.883+05:302012-01-05T12:54:36.883+05:30To add another point, whenever I said test case re...To add another point, whenever I said test case required, I did not mean that it is a low level test case describing in n number of steps. I meant, it should just highlight the scenario.<br />Why I said is, I again closely looked at the the example u gave about how a newbie taught about batting. This means you are assuming that I am telling we should stick to the test cases written in this pattern. I neither encourage that practice nor I follow it.Sadanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21132099.post-31771725451456879402012-01-05T11:42:30.203+05:302012-01-05T11:42:30.203+05:30I understood pradeep,
All I meant wa, test case ...I understood pradeep, <br /><br />All I meant wa, test case writing is a method which we can't totally rule it out and live without it.<br />I am on stressing on test case required only because we tend to forget what we do sometimes.<br />They are essential.<br /><br />Yes I quickly read http://testertested.qualityfrog.com/erpstt.pdf<br /><br />Yes the reports sound far better. Seems to be they are tendulkar and dravid of testing.<br /><br />But again, PASSION AND ATTITUDE is what is exactly required despite of having everything in the background. Without those two factors it would be hard to survive, forget about test plan/case.Sadanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21132099.post-23636547120052209322012-01-05T11:32:22.481+05:302012-01-05T11:32:22.481+05:30@Sada,
Here is what I truly mean: I think you hav...@Sada,<br /><br />Here is what I truly mean: I think you have got it wrong.Pradeep Soundararajanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17849721523107325938noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21132099.post-88330509169778063302012-01-05T11:30:59.342+05:302012-01-05T11:30:59.342+05:30Right.
And thank you I will take "100% corre...Right.<br /><br />And thank you I will take "100% correct" as a reward assuming that you truly mean it.Sadanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21132099.post-13262193265873810952012-01-05T00:11:05.530+05:302012-01-05T00:11:05.530+05:30@Sada,
100% correct. Just like how a newbie crick...@Sada,<br /><br />100% correct. Just like how a newbie cricket player needs to be told:<br /><br />"Step 1: Hold the bat<br />Step 2: Tap the bat a couple of times<br />Step 3: Wait for the ball to be released by the bowler<br />Step 4: Lift the bat and try to aim it at the incoming ball<br />Step 5: Hit the ball"<br /><br />This world, with too much of bad testing has convinced people like you to believe that freshers would struggle without test cases.<br /><br />Just check out this of how freshers behave when they are coached properly. Don't be surprised that their reports are far better than experienced ones: http://testertested.qualityfrog.com/erpstt.pdfPradeep Soundararajanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17849721523107325938noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21132099.post-31843501770686477222012-01-05T00:04:26.512+05:302012-01-05T00:04:26.512+05:30Okay.
A newbie working as a tester would hardly h...Okay.<br /><br />A newbie working as a tester would hardly have any idea about how to actually think beyond the box. I am not saying test case writing helps to improve it. But she should be occasionally made to write them down to ensure to what extent she can ensure the test case coverage.<br /><br />Maintaining test case/plan neither implies that we are going to promise quality nor does the exploration testing too.<br />The true value of plan/case etc documents comes into picture only when you happen to submit it as proof of what we have done and in case of something goingwrong at the end! Often for a long term project. Otherwise nobody even cares to see what it contains.<br /><br />If "replace-able" commodity comes into pic, I would ask what kind of documentation did Lakshmipathi Balaji followed in cricket because of which he played really short for international cricket:-) what I mean is, these two fields are different and cannot be compared with each other. Family different from sports different from an organization:-)<br /><br />I would say, we must have plan/case writing skill which should act as our strength in addition to exploratory testing.<br /><br />If not a test case document, we must keep at least a brief checklist with us to ensure we are not missing out any obvious things.Sadanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21132099.post-52251598637467334722012-01-04T23:28:54.245+05:302012-01-04T23:28:54.245+05:30@sadanand,
Your comment must have got missed. I g...@sadanand,<br /><br />Your comment must have got missed. I get an email for every comment posted. I seem to have missed yours.<br /><br />I would request you to re-post and I shall approve the same.Pradeep Soundararajanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17849721523107325938noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21132099.post-15797530505499105802012-01-04T23:22:25.552+05:302012-01-04T23:22:25.552+05:30I had thought I wil get to learn something after s...I had thought I wil get to learn something after sharing my comments. But very sad it was not showed up here. At least wanted to know the reason..Sadanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21132099.post-90892163930835208992012-01-02T15:57:28.473+05:302012-01-02T15:57:28.473+05:30@ Pradeep ,
Thanks for accepting my comment and ...@ Pradeep , <br /><br />Thanks for accepting my comment and for the closer look :) , I am really feeling good that you pointed out some thing about my writing style, believe me it wasn't the first time , but now onwards I will take it seriously. <br />I used to think that as a Tester, finding out functional issues is only our prime responsibility( I hate GUI issues.. alignment,text size, colors.. etc. because I don't feel my self comfortable on having a deeper look on them ). Later on as my testing career exceeded I realized that we Testers are the ISI mark ( " Indian Standards Institution " mark of course ) on a software project , and we need to be good in documentation also. As we need to review and approve the FRS , SRS , IQ documents. <br />I did not take them seriously ( all I wanted was ... Give me the Application ...Show me the requirements , Tell me the environment ) <br /> Now I relies how Important these documents are , IQ is the soul of the application, and FRS is the Life story ( as in one sense), Test Reports for Audits. Test cases for the validity. So on.. <br /><br />I know there will be lots of other mistakes also presented in this comment, but that is why fellow Testers are... to review your work and let you know where you went wrong :)ashishhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09329555184292048822noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21132099.post-19148343664484540232011-12-27T14:08:55.516+05:302011-12-27T14:08:55.516+05:30@Ashish,
Look at me: I learnt something after wri...@Ashish,<br /><br />Look at me: I learnt something after writing the previous comment. <br /><br />Clerks don't mean they write poor English. My wife worked as a clerk and her English is good :)<br /><br />As you compared a tester to a clerk, I just had to say it to help you understand the point about English.<br /><br />We all go wrong, what matters is how we are able to recognize it soon and correct ourselves.Pradeep Soundararajanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17849721523107325938noreply@blogger.com