tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21132099.post135782402345598856..comments2023-09-01T13:36:59.610+05:30Comments on Tester Tested !: Bugs and emotionsPradeep Soundararajanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17849721523107325938noreply@blogger.comBlogger25125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21132099.post-26203354454580909402007-04-03T08:41:00.000+05:302007-04-03T08:41:00.000+05:30@Divya,Thanks for dropping by. You actually indire...@Divya,<BR/><BR/>Thanks for dropping by. You actually indirectly mean that I have more focus now :) The search is on.<BR/><BR/>Thank you!Pradeep Soundararajanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17849721523107325938noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21132099.post-48872607067445896662007-04-03T01:49:00.000+05:302007-04-03T01:49:00.000+05:30hey prads, completely aside from the topic, ur blo...hey prads, completely aside from the topic, ur blog has become more technical and quite long too..! any reasons:) but must say, was an interesting read..found any girls yet? (for marriage of course!)Divya Rajanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07487048357736567748noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21132099.post-59423965455296944072007-03-30T18:33:00.000+05:302007-03-30T18:33:00.000+05:30In such a case, I personally see that context driv...<I>In such a case, I personally see that context driven testing more as PM's job or domain experts job than a software testers job.</I><BR/><BR/>You see context driven <B>testing</B> as PM's job domain expert's? Surprising!<BR/><BR/>I don't have control over your thoughts nor does anyone other than you and you are free to think anything in this world but personally you thinking that way might not fetch you a place in a community where testers believe in context driven thinking. If you are ok with it, there must not be any issues.<BR/><BR/>With you having tasted apple and if someone came to you not having tasted apple and said "Apple is salty fruit" - What would you ask him to do first?Pradeep Soundararajanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17849721523107325938noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21132099.post-39334965026052403792007-03-29T21:33:00.000+05:302007-03-29T21:33:00.000+05:30In such a case, I personally see that context driv...In such a case, I personally see that context driven testing more as PM's job or domain experts job than a software testers job. <BR/>Anyways, I would be interested to know what their response is if you report this bug to that portal.<BR/>--Mallik<BR/><A HREF="http://codeinspections.blogspot.com" REL="nofollow">COde Inspections</A>Mallikhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03900502542223960754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21132099.post-11990288168526197522007-03-29T14:00:00.000+05:302007-03-29T14:00:00.000+05:30@Mallikarjun,You have given the argument in favor/...@Mallikarjun,<BR/><BR/><I>You have given the argument in favor/against of both but who takes final decision, should it be there or not ? Is this a bug or not?</I><BR/><BR/>There is no one answer the question because they are different contexts.<BR/><BR/>In my opinion, an expert is not someone who knows to answer all questions but who knows what not to answer because of lack of information.<BR/><BR/>I say, "If someone can answer that question of yours without asking the context/application/situation/customer information/developers/testers/risk/business areas/..., he might not know what testing is all about"<BR/><BR/>I did give an answer to you: Let me put it more simple:<BR/><BR/>It depends on the <B>context</B> and depends on who and at what time is using it.<BR/><BR/>If testing problems were that simple of saying "yes/no" to a question like that, everyone are experts.Pradeep Soundararajanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17849721523107325938noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21132099.post-91952757325452299392007-03-29T13:52:00.000+05:302007-03-29T13:52:00.000+05:30Well, giving a confirmation dialog box may be coup...Well, giving a confirmation dialog box may be couple of mins job for developer and he may be fine with both of them. You have given the argument in favor/against of both but who takes final decision, should it be there or not ? Is this a bug or not?<BR/><BR/>Questions unanswered, terminology flourished :)Mallikhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03900502542223960754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21132099.post-69588415529503802802007-03-29T13:08:00.000+05:302007-03-29T13:08:00.000+05:30@Mallikarjun,Who were the Youtube's target custome...@Mallikarjun,<BR/><BR/><I>Who were the Youtube's target customers, was it content owners or was it piracy promoters :)</I><BR/><BR/>We don't know, you should be asking them.<BR/><BR/>Also, hackers are also customers. It's just that we don't want to please them.<BR/><BR/><I> Well I dont want to divert the topic.</I><BR/><BR/>Eh! In my opinion you did take the topic away from emotions and bugs but I didn't mind it.<BR/><BR/><I> When I click on close (X) in the browser, it gets closed without any confirmation message. Now should we think of it as a bug ????</I><BR/><BR/>If you ask a context driven thinker like me, I would answer: What's the context? I can't answer your question unless I know about the context in which it's being asked.<BR/><BR/>Coming to emotions, if I am in hurry ( context ) and when I attempt to close and I am asked to confirm closing it, I get irritated.<BR/><BR/>If I didn't intend to close but did it by mistake and I see it vanished, I get irritated.<BR/><BR/>Look at it, the same customer feels different about the product in different contexts. It's difficult to understand just one customer and how can anyone understand about all customers?<BR/><BR/>They might be making them emotionally happy and that's why their products are selling!Pradeep Soundararajanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17849721523107325938noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21132099.post-27552004596931945682007-03-29T12:57:00.000+05:302007-03-29T12:57:00.000+05:30"Ahhhh! Innovative product without knowing the cus..."Ahhhh! Innovative product without knowing the customer. Why don't you send this to start ups and see what their reply is."<BR/><BR/>Who were the Youtube's target customers, was it content owners or was it piracy promoters :). Well I dont want to divert the topic.<BR/><BR/>Just an example, When I click on close (X) in the browser, it gets closed without any confirmation message. Now should we think of it as a bug ????Mallikhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03900502542223960754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21132099.post-23106158609522735722007-03-29T12:16:00.000+05:302007-03-29T12:16:00.000+05:30@Mallikarjun,I agree but I think a good PM team re...@Mallikarjun,<BR/><BR/><I>I agree but I think a good PM team reflects the customer's choice</I><BR/><BR/>Ah! Good PM, Good Testers, Good Company... Nice to talk or write!<BR/><BR/>Good for whom?<BR/><BR/>No one can have a holistic view of what all customers would do with the product they are developing.<BR/><BR/><I> But now a days many startups comes of with innovative products which does not even know who the customers are (leave about customer's expectation)</I><BR/><BR/>Ahhhh! Innovative product without knowing the customer. Why don't you send this to start ups and see what their reply is.<BR/><BR/>Don't get offended by their reply. All companies do try to understand their customers and only then they can sell it and generate great success when they understand the customer more and more, each day.<BR/><BR/>Even in companies who claim to understand their customers - products evolve. What big deal in it?<BR/><BR/>Testing is still evolving and so are you and me in this world.Pradeep Soundararajanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17849721523107325938noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21132099.post-76552027049116189402007-03-29T11:50:00.000+05:302007-03-29T11:50:00.000+05:30"it's the customers who drive what is expected", I..."it's the customers who drive what is expected", I agree but I think a good PM team reflects the customer's choice. But now a days many startups comes of with innovative products which does not even know who the customers are (leave about customer's expectation) These kinds of products evolve with the time. <BR/>- Mallik <BR/><A HREF="http://codeinspections.blogspot.com" REL="nofollow">Code Inspections</A>Mallikhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03900502542223960754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21132099.post-76755758532408601172007-03-29T11:40:00.000+05:302007-03-29T11:40:00.000+05:30@Mallikarjun,I would have been happy if you said, ...@Mallikarjun,<BR/><BR/>I would have been happy if you said, "it's the customers who drive what is expected and the product management team propagate that information to the design of development team."<BR/><BR/>You and me are in India and as of today we are in a customer driven world.<BR/><BR/>Also, everything may be a bug or may not be a bug but testers bring out stories, draw conjectures and inferences to induce thought process about what he/she calls as bugs, in my opinion and many others to my knowledge.Pradeep Soundararajanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17849721523107325938noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21132099.post-12751352598290125142007-03-29T11:33:00.000+05:302007-03-29T11:33:00.000+05:30I never said that what you have seen is not a bug,...I never said that what you have seen is not a bug, but I said it may not be a bug as well. This calls for altogether a new discussion like who takes the final call on expected behavior? I think its the Prod Management team. Say the prod management team came up with some expected behavior based on what it thinks is fine with most of people, but if tester thinks that behavior is not obvious then does that mean it a bug ??<BR/>- Mallik<BR/><A HREF="http://codeinspections.blogspot.com" REL="nofollow">Code Inspections</A>Mallikhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03900502542223960754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21132099.post-81002723945038284462007-03-29T11:21:00.000+05:302007-03-29T11:21:00.000+05:30@Mallikarjun Reddy,Here is something interesting: ...@Mallikarjun Reddy,<BR/><BR/>Here is something interesting: Quality is value to some person - Jerry Weinberg.<BR/><BR/>You can't satisfy all stake holders and so couldn't the portal satisfy me because I didn't intend to express interest but just login and see more profiles.<BR/><BR/>When a tester himself is never sure whether what he has seen is a bug or not, how can you say what I have seen is not a bug?<BR/><BR/>Also, I quoted my oracle!Pradeep Soundararajanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17849721523107325938noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21132099.post-78953696286588366822007-03-29T11:17:00.000+05:302007-03-29T11:17:00.000+05:30I believe that Victor is right and I too think the...I believe that Victor is right and I too think the behavior you saw was intended. It may be decision taken by prod management or marketing team. I call only those things as bugs which are incorrectly coded by developers, If this was expected behavior given by Prod Management team then this is not bug by any means. Many times I have seen QA calling the things as bugs which developers have coded intentionally (in accordance with PM team). <BR/>- Mallik<BR/><A HREF="http://codeinspections.blogspot.com " REL="nofollow">Code Inspections</A>Mallikhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03900502542223960754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21132099.post-65302743469498540192007-03-28T21:57:00.000+05:302007-03-28T21:57:00.000+05:30@Shrini,I wouldn't forget anyone unless someone I ...@Shrini,<BR/><BR/>I wouldn't forget anyone unless someone I find formats my brain disk :)<BR/><BR/>You mean, you didn't read other wonderful stuff in the post?Pradeep Soundararajanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17849721523107325938noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21132099.post-19383322909742462832007-03-28T16:16:00.000+05:302007-03-28T16:16:00.000+05:30Congrats Pradeep --Only one thing that I read this...Congrats Pradeep --<BR/><BR/>Only one thing that I read this post is "you have decided to get married".<BR/><BR/>Dont forget us when you find the match ....Shrini Kulkarnihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10782753752478547381noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21132099.post-11253689017160225982007-03-28T14:14:00.000+05:302007-03-28T14:14:00.000+05:30Namasté,In general I agree as tester, that fewer b...Namasté,<BR/><BR/>In general I agree as tester, that fewer bugs make (some) people happy.<BR/>But there is also the possibility that some bugs also make people happy (even if it is only for a moment) for different reasons:<BR/>- you can get amused about others bugs, e.g. I remember smiling on this bug [ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkeC7HpsHxo ]<BR/>I also heard some people laugh in that video :-)<BR/>You can also use it as pain killer, because nobody makes perfect software on this world.<BR/>- I remember also that we laugh on our own bugs,<BR/>when we get together in the company and remember the old times: "You know, back then - this bug...?"<BR/>Don't you also have such stories too?<BR/><BR/>Every smile could make you live longer one heart beat.<BR/><BR/>about "Check the Blood Pressure of your team members":<BR/>people could use perhaps this .<BR/>But definitely better is to ask really people, read them (if this is possible)/the situation. But do not wait only for others to make you happy!<BR/>So, if you are not happy, there are probably different ways to get you happy again. Find them!<BR/>One could be like Camille tells:<BR/>"If you're afraid to do what you know is right, then you're not a real baker."<BR/>When was the last time you (yes, you who read this now) looked REALLY INTO YOU to be aware of your feelings?<BR/>BTW: Do you know, that you can see a SMALL YOU, when you look into your eyes in the mirror?<BR/>Try it, it might change your view on yourself.<BR/><BR/>[ http://www.rfidjournal.com/article/view/3170 ]<BR/>Well, what should I say? I am also still available on the marriage market. Let me try to mask this statement beneath the effort to not let Pradeep alone with his statement here that he is on quest :-)<BR/><BR/><BR/>btw:<BR/>Since we are talking now about emotions here in this post, I wonder why since about 1 month nobody has congratulated Pradeep on this? [ http://testertested.blogspot.com/2007/03/braidy-tester-interviews-tester-tested.html ]<BR/>Let me be the first to start this and make Pradeep happy and therefore live longer by e.g. boosting his emotions (strength and honor!).<BR/><BR/>ErkanAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21132099.post-23976322592072223332007-03-27T22:40:00.000+05:302007-03-27T22:40:00.000+05:30@Arun,Btw regarding marriage etc, hope you tone do...@Arun,<BR/><BR/><I>Btw regarding marriage etc, hope you tone down the testing outlook in the domestic side</I><BR/><BR/>I got offended with your statement. I don't want to offend you but want to mention that, in my opinion you looked at the humor in this post and not the message that this post contained to a tester.<BR/><BR/>Also, I need to highlight:<BR/><B> I am one of the happiest tester in this world and I need not be an expert to say this. Let's see who is lucky to marry one of the happiest tester of the world </B>Pradeep Soundararajanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17849721523107325938noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21132099.post-9217553950540199882007-03-27T21:53:00.000+05:302007-03-27T21:53:00.000+05:30Hi PradeepNice post. Made me choke up with laughte...Hi Pradeep<BR/><BR/>Nice post. Made me choke up with laughter...<BR/><BR/>Btw regarding marriage etc, hope you tone down the testing outlook in the domestic side. At least if you find any defects with the lady's way of doing things, be careful in raising them. You might find yourself rejected straight away without the bug even being assigned back to you :-)<BR/><BR/>Cheers and have a blissful search...Arunhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03273756551804582351noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21132099.post-54939817179638930702007-03-27T17:51:00.000+05:302007-03-27T17:51:00.000+05:30ha ha ha! Thank you Debasis :)ha ha ha! Thank you Debasis :)Pradeep Soundararajanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17849721523107325938noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21132099.post-75973613161038968842007-03-27T17:30:00.000+05:302007-03-27T17:30:00.000+05:30Hi Pradeep,*At last, Pradeep has decided to MARRY!...Hi Pradeep,<BR/><BR/>*At last, Pradeep has decided to MARRY!*.<BR/><BR/>GIRLS, please don't misunderstand the above sentence. In no way it means that Pradeep is @ late 40's. :) In fact, he is quite young and the most eligible bachelor from India in software testing field. <BR/><BR/>Let me clarify my sentence. Pradeep had been avoiding getting married for a long time now. Even he had postponed his marriage for another 2 years! Reason? So that, he could devote more time for testing (That tells the kind of Passion he has for testing).<BR/><BR/>Pradeep, I do agree with you that "As testers, we make the world better by allowing less bugs to live in the world, out of our test labs. We make people happy and the way to test better is to be happy."<BR/><BR/>And finally, Thanks for your suggestion about my blog. Hopefully, soon you won't have to see those ad-sense stuffs on my blog. <BR/><BR/>Regards,<BR/>- Debasis.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21132099.post-88676541422231967542007-03-27T16:39:00.000+05:302007-03-27T16:39:00.000+05:30At last, Pradeep has decided to MARRY!*.Debasis, i...<I>At last, Pradeep has decided to MARRY!*.</I><BR/><BR/>Debasis, it is not at last. I am aged 26 years 7months and some girls looking at this post might think I am at late 40's and at last I have decided to marry :)<BR/><BR/>Many thanks for your wishes.<BR/><BR/><B> Please do comment back saying, you understood that</B> : As testers, we make the world better by allowing less bugs to live in the world, out of our test labs. We make people happy and the way to test better is to be happy.<BR/><BR/>Only then I would be happy :)<BR/><BR/>Hmm! You have started to write better in your blog but maybe if you remove the ad-sense, more people might be interested to check what you write :)Pradeep Soundararajanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17849721523107325938noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21132099.post-35932294116207251182007-03-27T16:30:00.000+05:302007-03-27T16:30:00.000+05:30Hi Pradeep. The way you have compiled this writeup...Hi Pradeep. <BR/><BR/>The way you have compiled this writeup, is really interesting. But for me the essence of the post is *At last, Pradeep has decided to MARRY!*. :) I am eagerly waiting to see who is going to be the LUCKIEST girl to marry the HAPPIEST (and of course one of the most talented) tester of India. Wish you an advanced Happy Married Life!<BR/><BR/>Regards,<BR/>- Debasis.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21132099.post-61628213342621784332007-03-27T15:45:00.000+05:302007-03-27T15:45:00.000+05:30@Victor,Nope, that wasn't intended, in my opinion....@Victor,<BR/><BR/>Nope, that wasn't intended, in my opinion. They aren't doing a fooling business. It might just be a bug.<BR/><BR/>At least my "Similar portals oracle" says, it's a bug.Pradeep Soundararajanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17849721523107325938noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21132099.post-26105156930259906682007-03-27T15:42:00.000+05:302007-03-27T15:42:00.000+05:30:).Nice one.Sadly, I think the behavior you saw wa...:).<BR/><BR/>Nice one.<BR/>Sadly, I think the behavior you saw was intended.<BR/>They present you with "look at this profile" and they decided: "If someone looks this means they are interested".<BR/>(At least this is what I think happened).<BR/><BR/>Good luck,<BR/>VictorAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com